I think the next step is an old fashioned duel
13 Apr
Hi new reader. My name is Ben. You’re probably here because Ryan Holiday linked to me today. I have to admit that this surprised me for a couple of reasons. The first being that I didn’t think Ryan read my site anymore. I guess I was wrong.
The second reason is that I’m surprised is that Ryan is now taking shots at me. That sucks because I thought Ryan and I were friends. And not just facebook friends, like real actual friends. We’ve worked together, we were roommates for a summer. And although we are very, very different people I thought we sort of saw eye to eye. I guess I was wrong on that as well.
I understand the point of the post he wrote, that it’s easy to assign labels even if the item / person / thing in question doesn’t deserve the label. And in assigning that label, the object gets more than it’s fair share of recognition. It’s a point I agree with.
But now he’s assigned me the label of “comedian” which is a label that I’m not entirely comfortable with. Sure, I watch a lot of comedy and I’ve done a handful of open mic nights. I’ve found that performing at open mics is something that I enjoy but I’m not a working comedian. Except for a few drinks that people have bought me after a set (something I find good for the ego and the soul) I’ve never been ‘paid’ to perform.
It’s because I enjoy comedy that I’ve been writing about it recently. I never meant my writing to come across as a sort of self-aggrandizing commercial for my comic abilities. In rereading it, I can see how certain lines in this post (which he linked to) might be construed as me saying that I’m someone’s favorite comic or favorite author but it’s a position that I find so absurd as to be laughable. And I would hope that those who know me, either in real life or through the internet, would know that as well. I know I’m not anyone’s favorite author. I’m certainly not anyone’s favorite comic. Someday I hope to hit that level but I’m realistic enough to know that right now I’m still learning. Hacking away at that all-important first five minutes. And at the same time pushing myself to be a better writer.
The internet can be a rather cold and impersonal place even if it does open new avenues for us to connect with each other. I would have hoped that Ryan would have picked up the phone or dropped me an email if he thought I was being a shitcock or holding myself up to be something I’m not. Instead he chose to link me to his distain for physical possessions and people who claim to be ‘social media experts.’ If that’s how he feels then I guess he’s entitled to his opinion but it doesn’t make it suck any less when I read about it on his site.
That is all.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don’t think you’re self aggrandizing, I like your writing, and I’ve always thought Ryan came across as a douche who thinks a lot more of his ideas than they are worth.
Ben – of course I read everything you write. Why would I stop? I like what you write.
What caught my attention about your post – and let’s face it, I get hung up on things most people don’t – was you that you were reflecting on a process that you’d only just begun. More honestly, you were giving advice to other people because it’s easier than focusing on yourself. It’s easier than quietly setting out to do your work, creating a position of credibility and then speaking from it.
This is a nasty distraction and habit that the internet completely enables. Think about a comedian in your position 20 years ago – who would he have published those pieces to? He couldn’t have, at least until he was much further down the road. In a way he’d be lucky because he wouldn’t have this gratifying avenue to publicly “reflect” on the process. He’d be more likely to spend that time actually engaging in that process. His sense of self and confidence would be built through the result of that labor, not from the false image he’d crafted in front of a different audience. In some cases, the most honest thing to do is to say nothing at all.
Anyway, that’s my belief. Maybe it’s something to think about. Obviously I wish you all the best. It’s a shame you didn’t pursue this while you were in Los Angeles, I would have loved to come to a set.
This is a
Also, I think you might have a coding problem. Your links may be defaulting as internal links since it pops your own url in front of everything. For instance, this is how the link to your other post came out:
http://attentioncrash.net/blog/i-think-the-next-step-is-an-old-fashioned-duel/%E2%80%9Dhttp://attentioncrash.net/blog/oh-god-no/%E2%80%9D
Worst. Duel. Ever.
You guys might as well have had sword fights with your cocks.
Ryan – after first reading Ben’s post, I wrote and posted a fairly vicious attack on yours. I took it down almost immediately. My apologies if anyone noticed it – I’d like to take a different approach.
I disagree. If Pryor or Carlin or Bruce could have had an audience to speak to as they tore themselves down over and over again in their desire to improve, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have done so.
I wish I had more time right now to reflect on it, but I can at least propose a simple concept: fear and fearlessness. What made those men great at what they did was their complete lack of fear, or more accurately, their indifference to it as an impediment. Those were artists who completely overcame the paralysis that comes when hoping “this work will be as good as the last.”
The main point of what my original post was that growth comes not from quietly building oneself up, but from constantly tearing oneself down. And if it can be done for all the world to see, it gives you no place to hide, no way to back off without acknowledging one’s failures and moving on.
The other side of that coin is that the audience gains a fascinating look at what that growth truly is, and how it happens. People are actually interested in that, it’s a powerful and very human process. The place where it fails is not in publicly tearing oneself down as Ben has bravely continued to do, but when one is declaring themselves expert or genius at a thing they’ve been doing for just long enough to have gained some small success.
Growth is interesting. Standing on a plateau, not so much. So I completely agree with the main point of your post, but not when it is applied unilaterally. I think Ben’s humility and desire to sponge up every lesson and attempt to make sense of it publicly are a far cry from pretending to be a wisened old stand-up.
Right, Vince? It’s like someone filed down the tips of their tongues.
You guys are cute. Glad you’re not fighting.
@Ryan — First, thanks for taking the time to respond. I think I read your post as more acrimonious than you meant it. Obviously we have different opinions on this but I see your point. Maybe it’s narcissism, or some other need, that makes me reflect on this stuff publicly but I do like writing about it and I think it’s interesting. Some days I wonder how I’m even able to get out of bed, so I spend a lot of time wondering how other people manage it as well.
Second, it’s weird that for all that time living in Los Angeles I never actually thought about doing stand up. It was only on tour that the idea even seemed possible. Ironic that I lived in one of the great ’stand-up’ cities and didn’t try comedy until I left.
This from Ryan is pure hypocrisy.
You know what’s awesome? Starting a Reading List with the sole intention of guilting people to buy books off Amazon so you get a cut of the sales. And then posting about how you don’t actually care about money, when you really only downsized because you’re now poor.
THAT’S AWESOME!!!
I really wish Ryan’s posts were as informative as this one. Most of the time he’s too vague and nearly pretentious to read.
I’ve beaten up both of these guys with relative ease, so I’m not surprised at the lack of bloodshed.